Saving Lives: The Role of The Pharmacist in HIV

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About Dr Leal

Sandra Leal, PharmD, MPH, FAPhA, CDCES
Executive Vice President, Tabula Rasa HealthCare
President, American Pharmacists Association

Sandra Leal is an Executive Vice President for Tabula Rasa HealthCare and is serving as the 166th President for the American Pharmacists Association.

She is the past chair and current member of the National Center for Farmworker Health. She serves on the American Diabetes Association Diabetes is Primary group to highlights the impact that pharmacists can have on improving the care for people with diabetes.

Dr. Leal received her PharmD from the University of Colorado and her MPH in Public Health Practice from the University of Massachusetts. Dr. Leal completed her residency at the Southern Arizona VA Health Care System and a Primary Health Care Policy Fellowship with the Department of Health and Human Services.

She has published and presented her work in numerous national and international publications and venues. She has been recognized as the Good Government Pharmacist of the Year by the American Pharmacists Association (APhA) for her advocacy work on pharmacist provider status. Dr. Leal is a two-time recipient of the Pinnacle Award from the APhA Foundation for her progressive practice innovations and received the ASHP Best Practice Award for her leading practice in diabetes management.

Two themes that govern Dr. Leal’s professional life are a passion to eliminate barriers to care and to improve access and outcomes for patients. Dr. Leal has led efforts on both local and national levels to integrate pharmacy, public health, and advocacy to improve the healthcare system and to reduce health inequity.

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What you will learn

  • Leader- Dr Sandra Leal, PharmD, MPH President of american Pharmacists Association
  • Visionary- Evolution of pharmacy for us ALL
  • Conscious Pharmacist- patient centric, community activist, pharmacist leader
  • And more

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Transcript

Michelle:
This is Michelle Sherman, president of Michelle Rick’s pharmacist consulting services and the host of the conscious pharmacist podcast. Welcome to our show today. And it’s an absolute pleasure to have as our guest today, our leader, a visionary and definitely a conscious pharmacist, Dr. Sandra Neo president of the American pharmacist association and vice president for tabula rasa healthcare. Welcome to the show, Sandra. Thanks for being here today.

Sandra:
Thank you, Michelle, for the opportunity to be here. I love your, your, your podcast title, the conscious pharmacist, because it’s such an important thing to be in these times for sure.

Michelle:
No, absolutely. And you know, when, when I’m reading every day, I’m on Twitter, I’m on LinkedIn. You’re one of the most conscious pharmacists that I follow and you’re a leader. You’re a visionary and, you know, thank you so much for being on the show. So I, I think most of our listeners definitely know who you are. Can you just give us a little bit of an intro into the incredible work that you’re doing in your practice? You’ll feel the practice in diabetes care. How about your practice and you as a pharmacist healthcare provider?

Sandra:
Sure. well right now I currently work with tabula rasa healthcare and they’re doing a lot of work. We’re all doing a lot of work related to medication safety and really bringing in solutions for significant gaps that we’re seeing out in the healthcare space. So you mentioned diabetes, that’s been an area of practice for, for, for me for many years, I’m still a certified diabetes educator. They just changed the acronym, CDC E S instead of CD, but it’s essentially the same thing. And we’re working on finding ways to reach people that have challenges and be reached. And so this organization has really been a proponent of tele-health. We’ve been doing tele-health with, with symphony other the, the division I work in since 2006. So that’s been happening for a long time. And then we’ve been really looking at ways to make sure that the pharmacist is part of the care team and, and identifying care gaps, identifying medication related errors safety care gaps, and that we’re, we’re essentially plugging the pharmacist into that care team to help resolve these issues and provide more continuity of care and make sure people that have access problems, language barriers, things like that, that we can come in and provide care to be able to do that more effectively.

Sandra:
So I love the work that we do. It’s very much in line with the work that I’m doing with American pharmacist association, which is to try to show the value of the pharmacist and make sure that we advocate for the role of the pharmacist and the healthcare team, because we know that we add a lot to the solution to reducing total cost of care and making sure that patients have the best outcomes possible.

Michelle:
No, it’s, it’s so it’s so critical and, you know, I’ve been a member of the of APHL for a long time, and it’s been incredible to see how the organization has, has evolved from, you know, a pharmacist dispensing type role and focusing on like the pill bottle per se, and what goes on in the pharmacy to, to that of healthcare as two of a healthcare provider. And it’s absolutely critical. I mean, I think patient outcomes will, will never improve for the better unless they offer pharmacists on the health, on the healthcare team. So the work is, you know, extraordinary. One of the questions that are always asked my guests and I always find so interesting is why did you become a pharmacist?

Sandra:
Well, I became a pharmacist because when I was growing up in Nogales, Arizona, which is right on the border we actually used to go to the pharmacist as our primary care provider in Mexico. And the reason we would do that is because the pharmacist was easily accessible. They could actually speak the language that my family spoke. My parents did not speak English. There were not a lot of health care providers in the Nogales area that spoke Spanish and that were accessible to my parents. And so for me, when I used to seek care, when we used to seek care, that’s who we would go to. So that was primary care to me. And so that’s when I decided very early on, I think I was in 11th grade when I declared I wanted to be a pharmacist and I never not once changed my mind about that.

Sandra:
I went straight through school pursuing pharmacy, and I have really been blessed in this profession. It’s provided so many incredible opportunities to really reach people. And I’ve always had a passion for working with medically underserved populations working in the border health region where I still reside here in Tucson. I see so much need, I see these for language support. I need to see need for management of chronic conditions. I see a lot of people with barriers, like, you know, health literacy issues, social economic so many access problems. And so I still see the pharmacist as being one of the key access points that have in go-to when they need help. So that’s really why I love this profession so much. And I know I can make a significant impact with individuals all the time. The funny story is my first job in high school was as a, at like a promo Torah community health worker, a teen promo photo in my high school.

Sandra:
And it was to really get kids who needed just information and education to come to the health center and be comfortable with doing them. And that was at a federally qualified health center in no Gallus. It’s a mighty Posa health center. And they actually gave me a scholarship, a thousand dollars to, you know, pursue a profession or a healthcare profession. And so it’s really great to, you know, my first career, my first real job after my residency was at L real health center. And I worked at a federally qualified health center for 14 years, working with the population. And now, even to this day, I now sit on the board of L real health center and I still work a lot with with the, that population. And I love it. I just, it’s got some incredible mission. So I love the work that we do and there’s so much need out there. So definitely, I mean, it’s, that’s, that’s essentially why and why I continue to have such a interest, a passion for the work that I do.

Michelle:
Oh, that’s, that’s that’s incredible. And, you know, serving underserved communities, just like you, you mentioned, and working for FQHC are so critical and the greater world out there in our country needs to know the critical importance of these health centers of the work of pharmacists, like the work that you do and how critical it is for those underserved populations. You, you work with you know, with the national center for farm worker health and, you know, our farm workers are the backbone of our economy without our farm workers. We don’t get food on our table. And I think so many times people don’t realize this, that we have to take care of everybody, you know, especially like our farm workers. So oftentimes they go, you know, just in the shadows I noticed without access to health care. And that’s why access to healthcare for all is like, so, so critically important. And, you know, as you mentioned, FQHC is, I mean, we’ve seen you know, federally and politically constant attacks and Onslow towards like FQHC is towards three 40 B programs. How do we turn that around? How do we make people, the legislators and the powers that be realize the critical value of the FQHC is over three 40 B program and how it changes the health of communities.

Sandra:
I really do think it starts a lot with sharing their story and the impact that they have. And I always start with you know, my father was a farm worker. He, he was a farm worker that really drives a lot of my interest and passion again, for working with a national center for farm worker health. And when I share that story and when I, you know, have a real connection with that, that, that speaks volumes, but then really sharing the impact that’s that they’re having is tremendous. And to the point you made earlier, I think when people connect the dots about where, where does your food come from? You know, when you’re, you know, the cost of your, your produce goes up, there’s a lot of concern there, but then you have to look at and see why that’s happening. Who’s being impacted, what’s happening with the population.

Sandra:
And I think about COVID in particular and how far markers were disproportionately impacted because they’re living in these, you know, in, in these houses with a lot of people living in them, they don’t have a lot of the protections that we need and that’s impacting every aspect of the food that we have. And, and so making those connections, telling those stories, showing people how that really at the end of the day really impacts them. I think that that goes a long ways. And unfortunately, what I think is sad is sometimes we have to experience something ourselves for people to like, you know, find a reason to care about it. It shouldn’t be like that, right. It should be that we could actually look at a situation and see that it’s not a good situation. And then we could jump in and help.

Sandra:
But I’m finding that just, you know, people don’t really believe in things or, or want to be active on things unless it’s happening to them. And that’s a hard thing to change minds have. So so that’s really challenging, but there’s so much work that we need to do. There’s so much work that we need to do to really help people have better outcomes. And truly when I look at our society, I really, you know, everybody cares about our kids going to school, having a good job, you know, taking care of our family. There are things that we can all agree on and we got to get more to that discussion rather than be attacking each other, essentially.

Michelle:
No, absolutely. I mean, if, if, if we were able to take the politicians and the politics out of everything and sit down across from each other people with different views and different values and everything, there’s so much more that we agree on than we disagree on. And I think, you know, the media just makes such hype out of things that shouldn’t be that important that it divides us. It divides us so much that, you know, everybody’s like fighting in this me attitude instead of looking at the greater community. You know, if we just, each one started with ourselves, just had more kindness and compassion towards just ourselves, first of all. And then our neighbors, our families and everything, I think we could have like a completely different society.

Sandra:
That’s very true. I think self-awareness is incredible and, and is, have to be intentional. You know, you have to wake up and think about what you’re going to do that day and how you’re, I, at least that’s what I do. I wake up and I think, what am I going to do today? What is my contribution for the day? What was my success today? And some days are better than others. Some days I feel like I made more impact than others, but but collectively, just trying to think about what is that, that contribution. And I’ve really, you know, I think as I, as I get older, I think more about legacy. And I think that, you know, in my career, like, I, I always talk to my daughter’s 17 and I talked to her about the different decades of my life and, you know, sort of trying to guide her and, and being a mission-driven individual and just talking to her about, you know, where I was in my twenties, you know, where I was in my thirties.

Sandra:
And now that I’m in my mid forties here, I’m like what what’s going to be my lasting impact, my legacy, and what do I want to be remembered for? And I think about that because so many people, especially in the last year and a half have they’ve died in so suddenly and so young and with no, you know, conditions because of COVID. So it definitely puts it in your face a lot more to think about those kinds of things and think about what you can do to be making a significant positive change. So it, but it isn’t, you know, you have to think about it intentionally and try to do something with that and hopefully for the good so I, I read a quote about, you know, givers and takers, and I definitely always think about myself as trying to give and not to take, or at least definitely give way more than I take. But again, it’s something you have to work on.

Michelle:
No, absolutely. And it just boils down to just each one of us being conscious in our life, in our actions and in the work that we do every day. So yeah, just, it it’s, it’s, it’s just incredible. And, you know, talking about, you know, equitable healthcare, if UHC is three 40 B and everything, you know, it all, we have to knuckle down to the nitty gritty and to the core of everything. And, you know, a lot of, you know, what you’ve already talked about today is, you know, the bias we have in our society and healthcare there to not recordable, but situations of people, we, I mean this systemic racism and a bias that navigates through our society that causes impacts like the pandemic and the COVID affecting certain communities more than others that people might not realize, you know, whether you’re sitting in your mansion in Newport beach, or you, you know, you to take four buses to get to work, to, to be a server or work in a restaurant or for farm workers and people living in certain communities. I think a lot of people in the community at large don’t really realize that. And how do we change that best situation in society to make people’s and health better?

Sandra:
But, you know, it’s interesting. I, I was interviewed for this article and it was about how pharmacy deserts and, you know, I think, you know how sometimes you get interviewed and they take a quote and it’s out of context, like this is sort of like, I feel like that happened in a way. But what I was saying was that there’s a lot of pharmacy deserts, a lot of pharmacies are closing, you know, technology’s helping to some degree with tele-health, but, but we still need a lot of really understanding of where populations are people are at. And one of the things that I was talking about as it related to closing a pharmacy, that’s close to somebody, you know, if somebody has to go and either now do mail order, for example, or they have to exactly to your point, take two or three buses to get to a certain place.

Sandra:
Or, you know, some of the solutions are like calling Uber. I was like, I actually was in a situation where I was talking to a friend and she was talking to me about how expensive the taxi was. And, and then I just mentioned that I was like, have you tried Uber? And she’s like, I don’t have a credit card. And we don’t think about that because we do have a credit card. A lot of us have a credit card, but there are so many people that don’t have a credit card, right. Or don’t have like internet that’s actually functional. And that works when they needed to work with the speed that they need for some of the new tools and technologies out there. So it’s those kinds of things that we need to really think about as we’re making designs and policy, or, or things are happening because it impacts certain people way more than others.

Sandra:
And, and a lot of times we just take for granted and make assumptions, not in a bad way. We’re not trying to, you know, be minimizing it. But, but we have to think about that. We have to think, do people really have a Nuber Uber app? Do they have a phone? Do they have a credit card? Do they have all the things that they would need to actually facilitate their access? And I bet that a lot of people don’t, and it’s a lot of people that are the most challenged, the most underserved, the ones that have experienced a job loss in the last in the last year and a half and that’s or people with even people with health insurance. And I always bring this up. I’m like, well, we might think somebody could because they have health insurance, but the deductibles now are incredible.

Sandra:
And if you have a chronic condition, the multiple co-pays that you have are incredible. And it adds up so quickly. And I speak from experience because I’m married to, and I have a child with type one diabetes. So another reason why I have so much concern and an interest in figuring out how to make this complex healthcare system better. But if you, like, we get a bill every single day because of this refill, because of this, you know, follow up with this doctor because I have to go to a DME pharmacy, we have to go to the regular pharmacy. We have to go to, you know, if we have to go to urgent care for whatever a sprain, or then you get just a bunch of bills and they might not be a lot at once $40 here, $40 here. But when you actually start doing the math, it’s a lot.

Sandra:
And thank goodness, I’m not complaining. Cause I’m very blessed that we’re able to afford these things. But I always put myself in other people’s shoes and I think, oh my gosh, what would somebody else have to do? Or what would they have to compromise? Because they couldn’t afford the volume of deductibles and copays even with health insurance. So that’s, you know, that really drives me because I live it every single day. And it is tremendously challenging for people with, with conditions that they just have, they were, they were, you know, the type one, they didn’t do anything to get these, but this is the, this is the, the, the card that they’ve been dealt in. So now we have to figure it out and try to navigate the system. So, yeah. So like when you put it into perspective, it’s, it’s challenging out there. So I have a lot of empathy for people and that’s why I’m always really trying to advocate for, for something to be done to help because it’s just a growing problem as healthcare expenses continue to rise.

Michelle:
Oh, absolutely. And it’s, it’s, it’s incredible how healthcare expenses continue to rise, but health continues to decline. And, you know, I always tell my patients and people that I speak to we as a society, real, we are all just part of the ticket tape of wall street. When you have a healthcare system that’s profit driven, where you have PBMs and health insurance companies, that where the CEOs are making millions and millions of dollars, but their members, the people that are insured can’t afford to get the insulin because they can’t afford a copay. You know, people don’t put themselves in other people’s shoes. You know? I also work with a lot of underserved like homeless populations and, oh, the copay is only $5 or $5 to somebody could be like someone telling me my copays $5,000. There’s no difference. And, you know, putting ourselves in other people’s shoes is so important.

Michelle:
A couple of years ago I was doing an HIV talk up in San Francisco for a patient group and for this organization and all the patients that were in the room were homeless. And, you know, I always talk about adherence and things like that. And to your point about your, your Uber comment you know, it was talking about adherence and everything. And one of the guys, you know, taught me, takes this medicine every day and he lives on a box on the street in San Francisco. He said to me, he says, the worst thing is, I don’t know what to do when my medicine gets wet, when it starts raining. And you know, it almost brought me to tears because first of all, I’d never thought of something like that. Like it’s just not in my purview. I would never have thought of something like that. But I tried to come up with a solution for him about what to do when his medicine gets wet and it gets ruined something. We never think who would think of that. Right. Yeah.

Sandra:
Well, you know, I have a similar thing here in Arizona with with people who have diabetes and they have insulin and they’re homeless. I’m like they can’t refrigerate that they have to figure out how to inject themselves insulin if they’re living without a home, like these are real problems that people are facing every single day. And, and it is incredibly challenging to try to figure out a work around. So that, and the sad thing is we have to try to figure out workarounds to that versus trying to actually figure out, well, how do we help somebody like that have a better situation. So I hear exactly what you’re saying and it’s those kinds of stories are when you see it for yourself, it’s almost unbelievable that this is happening out there and it is happening unfortunately every day.

Michelle:
No. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, from everything we’ve discussed already today w what can you tell people who are listening, who, you know, or pharmacists they’re working in whatever area they’re working, but they don’t belong to their local state or especially national organizations like EPHA can you let them know, like, why is this so important to belong to these organizations?

Sandra:
Well, for me, I mean, I think what it’s brought to me and what I think has been wonderful is that it’s really added a lot of value to my career and just created a network of opportunities and collaborations that I would have not had had I not done that. So, you know, when I think about your state association being part of that really helps you advocate for local issues and what you have to deal with within your state. So that’s, to me really critical from a national perspective, you know, I know APHL is literally on the hill advocating every day for positive changes to pharmacy, to get our message heard, to make sure that they’re advocating for our role in healthcare. So I know a lot of times that I used to, I used to sit in my, in my exam room, frustrated with some of the policy things that would impact so many patients, for example, you know, a patient’s formulary would change at the beginning of the year.

Sandra:
And the meter that they’d been on for two years is all of a sudden having to change. And then I would have to deal with the next 500 patients to try to get them the next, you know, the next meter, try to get them educated, try to avoid fragmented care. And I was like, I can’t keep doing it one at a time. How do we actually change the system or advocate for policy or system changes to impact more people in a positive way? And so I think your state and your, your national associations really give you a platform to be able to do that. It also gives you more of a voice in what you’re trying to do. My theme for president for the presidency this year is be the voice. You know, if you’re seeing these frontline problems and they’re frustrating to you be the voice to make those things to change.

Sandra:
And it doesn’t seem like maybe as one individual, you can make a difference, but I can tell you for personal experience, one person with a very loud voice can make a difference, and you can leverage the voice and amplify your voice with these national associations of state associations, other groups, not just even pharmacy groups, but you know, your local public health department, your local school, the PTA, there’s so many places that you can amplify your voice. If you, if you really care about some of these issues and you don’t have to be fighting or frustrated out there alone. And sometimes it feels like you’re alone when you’re, you know, when you’re, you’ve got your head down, trying to work on, on something but really look at what the collective good can be. All of these people working together.

Michelle:
Oh, absolutely. It’s, it’s just so important. I, I know, I mean the work, I mean, I commend the work that everybody does at APHL fighting like literally every day for almost like 50 different countries. You know, I think here in California, we recognize this healthcare profession providers, and we have the APHL licensed designation now. And, you know, we’re fighting locally to make lives better for pharmacists and for our patients in California. But AP has fighting like on 50 different fronts almost to make this like a federal national change. So another thing that you mentioned earlier that that really struck me was w when you spoke about your legacy, and that is so important, it’s like, what do we as pharmacists? What do we want to leave behind? When, why are we here? That’s a question. I asked myself like a lot, like, why am, why am I here?

Michelle:
What is the purpose for me living this life and doing the work that we’re doing? Why are we here? So if you can, you know, to everybody out there, like on a fundamental level, asked yourself that question, I think you can do extraordinary things because what, what do we have to lose as pharmacists, be that be your best self and make those changes like in your communities? I think we’ve never had a better platform for pharmacy and with COVID and the ability to do these vaccines and make a difference in healthcare than we have now. And we can’t stay silent.

Sandra:
We can’t, I hope that pharmacists that have been active, and I know I see this every day with pharmacists that are out there doing incredible things, patients that appreciate them, it’s been magnified, definitely with COVID, you know, I volunteered in a COVID clinic last, I think it was last Thursday night. And there was a woman walking by. I was actually volunteering nonmedical, so I wasn’t drawing the syringes or anything. I was actually out on the sidewalk in downtown Tucson, trying to get people that were walking by to do what we called the after dark vaccine clinic to reach that can’t go to the pods or these other areas, or even walk into a pharmacy. And there was a, a woman she only spoke Spanish. She was pushing a cart, selling a little items. And I approached her. I said, Hey, do you want a vaccine?

Sandra:
She didn’t speak English. I was like, okay, this is my moment. I obviously speak Spanish is my first language. And I’m like, I talked to her and I said, Hey, you know, in Spanish, here’s the vaccine. And she’s like, well, I don’t know how to read. I’m like, it’s okay. I can, you know, I can read for you and I can translate, I don’t have insurance. I’m like, absolutely don’t need insurance. You can, you can access this vaccination. And she’s like she was like, do we, do I get anything? Like, is there going to be any paperwork or anything I have to fail or show an ID? Cause I don’t have any ID on me. I’m like, you don’t need anything. You literally, if you walk here, I’ll watch your cart for you and then I’ll help you get this vaccine. And again, this is all in Spanish and she’s like, okay, okay, I’ll do it.

Sandra:
And so she sat down, she got vaccinated, you know? And I just, I just feel like at that moment, had I not been there and been able to do this work in Spanish, to help her understand and translate she would’ve walked past and not ever had that chance to have access to the vaccine. And so that’s what I think, why was I supposed to be there at that particular time for this particular person? And there were, I could like 23, 24 more people that walked by that I was able to, you know, draw in from the sidewalk to come in and get a vaccine. People from all backgrounds you know, all kinds of experiences. And it was one of the most gratifying things I’ve done in a long time. And I, I, I am so blessed to do so much, you know, good, fun things, but that truly reminded me again, why it’s so incredible. And I’ve heard so many pharmacists say, you know, when people got that first vaccine crying, they were so happy. They just felt relieved and pharmacists were really part of that picture. And so that, I hope that we take those moments that we’ve experienced during the COVID and look at how we can use these experiences about how big impactful you made and continue to, to reach for that thing. And I think that definitely will define your legacy.

Michelle:
No, absolutely. And that translates, you know, to the work that we do every day, when we get students coming on rotation or coming for, for residency programs in, in our practices, I think being able to teach them those processes and you can’t teach kindness, compassion, and empathy, but when they see it, it transforms their perception of being a pharmacist and then sits a trajectory for them to move forward in their career to continue this work. Because I mean, we’re not going to be around forever, but the work needs to progress and continue and evolve. And, and that’s how we like pay it forward. And it transforms, I mean, that story you told, it’s just extraordinary. And that brings tears to my eyes to think you saved that woman’s life potentially by here giving a vaccine that day. And that really leads to how important that work is to talk to patients. Because so many times they think I don’t have ID, I don’t have insurance, I don’t get access, you know, because of the position or way they own their life. And that is just, just not true. And I did a podcast a few weeks ago of this, the COVID vaccine clinics that we’re all doing. And the vaccine is free, is really like a platform. And, and, and th the foundation for us to develop a national healthcare plan, that’s free for everybody. Why should it not be

Sandra:
Well, we will pay for it. I mean, we do with direct monies to actually, you know, fund this stuff instead of, of so much other things. So I, you know, as much as we say, it’s free it, we pay for it. We just are using our money better. Right. We’re using it in a way that actually pay for things like prevention and screening, instead of more of those acute, very high cost things that we could have actually prevented. So maybe we’re paying a lot less by having more thought about how we, how we actually rework this very, very expensive system we currently have in place.

Michelle:
No, it is. And it’s channeling the dollars in different ways. Like you mentioned, if they paid us as pharmacists for the interventions that we did would be so much cheaper than having that patient end up in the ER or the ICU

Sandra:
Cheaper. Well, it’s funny, I think with vertical integration, there is so much more discussion and, and understanding of these people are staying in those verdict integrated vertical systems longer. So there is more thought, oh, wow, what do I need to do at the beginning? So we don’t end up with that at the end. So it’s sort of like for me into these like three to four big models. So it’s, I’m very curious to see how this is going to all shake out because it’s sort of, even by, I force getting to that point where we don’t have that many payers anymore. But it’s very interesting dynamics and very, just it’s, it’s, it’s an incredible time. I’m just, you know, I’m glad to be here to try to at least contribute what I can to try to create better solutions.

Michelle:
No, absolutely. For anyone wanting to reach you what’s the best way they can contact you.

Sandra:
Definitely a social media is a great way that I’m very, you know, I do try to share information. I definitely try to amplify the voice of the pharmacist there. My hashtag my handle is S Lowel, S L E a L R X. And so that I use for LinkedIn, I use that for Twitter, for Instagram and for Facebook. And then I have one that I created specifically for my presidency year, which is called be the voice RX. And that is on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And so any of those you can connect to me that way. I know Michelle that you’re going to share some links. And so my, my contact information is, is on there. And I love to hear, you know, from, from different individuals and, and people to see what I could do to just help in any way that I can

Michelle:
Absolutely will. You know, before we, before we end, is there any last highlight or tidbit or anything you want to share with your electorate out there across the country?

Sandra:
I just want to, I truly want to thank every single person out there. That’s really stepped up during this pandemic and done so much. I mean, even, just personally, even if you’ve just stayed home and not gotten out there, when they said, they’ll go out there, you know, stay home and, you know, protect each other. Thank you. Thank you for doing everything you’re doing. Thank you for all of the hours you put in. I know there’s been so many pharmacists out there and other health care professionals that have just worked endless hours. They volunteer on top of their work. They’re doing talks, they’re doing all sorts of things to try to get the message out so that we can overcome this pandemic together. It’s really been a highlight to see how really, even though we’ve had the politics and all of that humanity has come together to try to defeat this, this virus and, and we will win. We will win, but we have to be prepared for the next one. Cause there will be a next one. We just have to be more prepared for that.

Michelle:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show and to all the listeners out there, I’m sure you’re feeling the same way I am now that Sandra is a leader, a visionary and most certainly a conscious pharmacist. So thank you so much. The, the, the transcript will be in the, in the show notes and we have the whole resources link as well for you to find out more information about EPHA tablet, Rossa, and Sandra. So thank you so much, Sandra. And w w we’ll see you soon as we move forward with changing pharmacy

Sandra:
And thank you, Michelle, for everything you do. I appreciate what that you’re getting the voice out for all of these conscious pharmacists.

Michelle:
No, my pleasure. Thank you so much.

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